13. Cleaning water swamps with micro algae technology. Feat Jaime Gutierrez, entrepreneur and PhD on Biological Sciencies.

Cleaning water swamps with micro algae technology. Feat Jaime Gutierrez, entrepreneur and PhD on Biological Sciencies. === [00:00:00] Jaime Gutierrez: In the best cases and just for the 3% of the water of the big cities, that water goes to water treatment plant that usually use bacterias to consume the organic load. That is the poop of the water. And then the bacteria's body have to be disposed in some way. You can burn it, you can put it in landfills. It consumes a large amount of money. And then just the more developed cities in the world can pay that. So the 70% of the water that are produced in a smaller cities and towns are just not treated. The poop goes to the river. Our proposal is to use the sewage that we produce to culture micro algae, capture carbon dioxide, and produce energy. [00:01:00] Mizter Rad: Hey, beautiful humans. I'm sitting down here for a chat today with my Colombian brother, Jaime Gutierrez. Jaime has a PhD on biological sciences with multiple papers and scientific studies published all over the place. But you know, the coolest thing is, and I want you to listen to this beautiful story carefully. There is a small town in the north of Colombia called Santiago Apostol. Santiago Apostol is rather a poor village by Western standards, I would say. And if you open Google Maps and type Santiago Apostol, Colombia, you will notice that the town is surrounded by swamps. Unfortunately, those swamps are getting more and more contaminated, and the thing is, the villagers, people that live there, their main income source is fishing. Artisanal, low technology, low capital fishing is what feeds the population of Santiago Apostol in the north of Colombia. Now, here comes Jaime and his team with the help of algae. And they're decontaminating the swamps around this village and giving hope to the local fisheries. Jaime. Como estás? How are you doing? It's a pleasure to have you on here. [00:02:20] Jaime Gutierrez: Hello. I'm, I'm very, I'm very good and thank you for this, uh, interesting invitation. [00:02:26] Mizter Rad: That's great to hear, Jaime. Let's start by just telling people how all this works. Because you, I mean, you, your project and your company became kind of viral when the World Economic Forum published a video of what you guys are doing in the north of Colombia. Starting from the very beginning, how did you choose which river, which lake, which swamp to clean and how do you do it? [00:02:55] Jaime Gutierrez: Well, uh, the process began in the laboratory during my PhD and we was trying to understand how we can use the natural capacity for micro algae, cuz we only work with, uh, um, microscopic algae, not with the large algae that you can see with your eyes in the, in the ocean. This is microscopic. Then I, we was, uh, trying to understand in my research group, how we can, uh, take advantage of the natural capacities of this micro algae to, uh, retire the pollutants in the water, you know. And then we get in, we was invited, uh, from the governor of Sucre, which is, uh, like a state, a department. It's a state in the North Columbia. And he says, uh, I have this problem with this river that is going to the swamp and it's very polluted, and I wanna know if you can help me to solve this pollution problem with your micro algaes that you have in the lab. So we accept and we go there. We present a project to, to, to seek funding for the, for from the government. And then we will, we achieved that. We get the funding and then we work together with the department, my university with Los Andes University and the University of Sucre, another university from Barranquilla. And we go there and we select micro algaes from the swamp that, uh, have the problem. And then we, uh, strength that micro algaes in our reactors and put it back in the, in the river, in the, in the stream, because it's not a river, it's really a stream, um, and the swamp. And we achieve to, uh, decrease the contamination and the back and the dangerous bacterias that was present in the water and was a hazard for the population. [00:04:42] Mizter Rad: Okay, so hold on there because, so you, you, you. I'm trying to get it here. You have a team and you from, with the help of different organizations, universities, et cetera. [00:04:53] Jaime Gutierrez: Yeah. [00:04:53] Mizter Rad: And the approval of the local governor, you said, go, let's go there and take a sample of the water in the swamp and take it back to the lab. [00:05:03] Jaime Gutierrez: Yeah, because there is important clarification is that we always work with local micro algae, we never take micro algae from one zone and put it in a in another. [00:05:15] Mizter Rad: Why is that important? [00:05:17] Jaime Gutierrez: That's important because the ecology. That's important because when you put, uh, when you use organisms that are not local, you have the risk to, to produce a damage in the ecosystem because that organism could, could uh, make it dominant in the new swamp and then you have a problem and then you will not... [00:05:40] Mizter Rad: Yeah, this reminds me, and it has nothing to do with with this story, but it reminds me a bit of, uh, this story that went viral also, uh, some years ago of these hippos, hippopotamus that were like going around the rivers of Colombia after Pablo Escobar had brought some samples, some animals from Africa, and many years later there, there was a plague of hippos in Colombia that is not, of course a natural habitat for these big animals. So it's kind of, it's kind of comparable situations. It happens the same with micro organisms like algae then. [00:06:18] Jaime Gutierrez: Yes, true. Totally true. It's very accurate. Your, your example with the difference that microorganisms are very fast. Reproduction. So you will see the damage much, much faster than with the hippos. But it's true. That's the reason why we work with local microorganisms. And there is another reason and is the efficiency. Because that cells, that micro algae are more adapted to the specific conditions, environmental conditions. They will work better for that conditions in order to reduce the pollution. And that's the other reason why we take from the local environment. [00:06:55] Mizter Rad: I get it. I get it. Okay. So you go there, you take a sample of water and then you take it back to the lab. And what do you do in the lab? [00:07:02] Jaime Gutierrez: In the lab, we identify the different species of micro algae that we have in the water of that place. And then we know because of the literature, because of other works and our own experience, what of that micro algaes that are already present, are good for consume The specific pollutants that we also identified in the samples. For it is an example, it's different uh, water that is polluted with oil, that water that is polluted with, uh, sewage, you know, it's different. And will be different species that are good for each kind of, uh, pollution. So we select the ones that are better for the specific case of pollution that, uh, are in the, in the place. And then we run different, uh, culture cycles in all reactors. That basically what the reactors do, is to stimulate with the different, um, photic cycles. It's like the, the light, the, the, the photo periods of, of the micro algae. Because micro algae, as the plants, are photosynthetic, okay. Organisms. [00:08:08] Mizter Rad: So they grow with light. They need light, basically [00:08:11] Jaime Gutierrez: they need light to grow with the difference that they could grow just with light or, and, and also they could use the pollutants , like food. So, uh, we, we, we call that Bioaugmentation, that's a technical term in which we strained and increase the number of that specific species that we selected, uh, previously selected. And then we go and put it in again in the swamp and the stream, and they do the work. [00:08:40] Mizter Rad: Okay. And so how much algae do you take from the contaminated water body? Like the from the swamp, for example, in, in terms of litters or gallons, how much, how big is that sample? How much do you need? [00:08:52] Jaime Gutierrez: 10 liters . [00:08:53] Mizter Rad: 10 liters? So very little... [00:08:55] Jaime Gutierrez: and then we select, we, we find, for example, like 68 different species. And when we come back to the region, we only have 12 that we was, was selected for, for do the work and that 12. [00:09:09] Mizter Rad: Okay. So, so, so sorry. So you have in, in, in the sample, you, you realize that the, the swamp may have more, let's say more than 50 species of algae. You go back to the lab, you do the work, and then you come back, you come back with less species. Not the 50... [00:09:27] Jaime Gutierrez: ...less... just 12. Yeah, [00:09:28] Mizter Rad: just 12. Why? . [00:09:30] Jaime Gutierrez: Why? Because that was the species that we that we know that will eat the pollutants that was present in the environment. [00:09:37] Mizter Rad: What happens with the other species? Do they die after you put more of these other species? [00:09:42] Jaime Gutierrez: No, that's a good thing. Okay. They don't die because, uh, because this is a, I mean, we select the 12 species, but when, when they go back to the, to the stream or the swamp, there is a lot of plankton. That is like microscopic animals that use that micro algae, like, like food. So, uh, you don't have a change in the number of species of the swamp. And that's, that's very important because that will be a damage. You know, if, if or 12 species become dominant in that swamp, that will be bad no matter. Okay. No matter if we. Reduce the pollution, but or of our goal is to reduce the pollution without make change in the, in the environment. [00:10:34] Mizter Rad: Damaging the environment, the ecosystem, [00:10:36] Jaime Gutierrez: the, yeah, the ecosystem. Yeah. Okay. Diversity, basically. [00:10:39] Mizter Rad: The diversity and this plankton, they eat any kind of algae or do they have a specific, plankton that they like better, uh, sorry, algae, that they like better or something? [00:10:49] Jaime Gutierrez: They have, they have their preference, but the truth have, the truth is we, scientists didn't know to the detail that. So that's why it's so important to work with local species because if that species was there, I'm very sure that it will be zooplankton there that cal could eat that one. But if I take, uh, a different micro algae for another swamp of Colombia, I could think that probably would be eaten, but I can't assure that for sure. Like I can say that like, uh, with, with proof. So, so that, that, that's the basic of, of the importance of use local species. [00:11:31] Mizter Rad: And this microscopic organisms have been evolving in this environment for how many years? [00:11:37] Jaime Gutierrez: We know that they are very, very old. And that's why they are in, I mean like all the world they are here in the planet before us, before dinosaurs, you know they are here from millions of years. They are the ancestors of the, of the visible plants, the multicellular plants, the trees, all the grass, all that organisms evolve from the group of micro algaes. [00:12:07] Mizter Rad: From micros algaes. How did you get into micro algaes? the other day I was, uh, you know, uh, we talked about this already. You studied medicine and you wanted to become a doctor and you were successful being a doctor for a while, but then you got tired of it and wanted to do something else. But now you went into micro algaes. And this is very specific. So I wanna know what's the fascination with algaes at the moment? [00:12:31] Jaime Gutierrez: Well, my girlfriend say that I'm still a doctor. Just that the, I, I'm in a physician, just the patient now is the planet. That's very . [00:12:40] Mizter Rad: Okay. That's in, that's a good way of putting it. Yes. [00:12:42] Jaime Gutierrez: Yeah. But the, the truth is, uh, I was working in innovation with biotechnology and at that moment, like, uh, I will say like 14 years ago, I was doing my master degree and I was trying to produce a recombinant protein, human, human recombinant protein of, uh, uh, pulmonary, pulmonary surfactant. This is a very complex thing, but the, the, the point is I was trying to find an unicellular micro organism to work that was not a bacteria. Because I, I was worried about the immunology involved in the, in produce, uh, uh, human protein in the bacteria. So then I, I, I begin to try to establish contact with different scientists in the world, uh, that work with, for example, micro algaes. And then I find Dr. Uh, Sivasubramanian from Chenai India. And he, he, I mean, we, we talk about by mail and he asked me to invite him to Colombia to try to understand what I wanna do, and I do that. And he came here. We made like a academic event about my, uh, micro algaes, and, and then we, we find that we work well together. And, and he say me like, well, I can teach you about micro algae biotechnology for the thing that you wanna do in human health, but in exchange, I wanted you help me to, to, to, to fight the pollution of the planet I wanted you become, and it's a quote "Green Warrior". For the planet. So, uh, was like a joint venture that we made. And I accept. And, and then I begin to, to work with this. And then the happens that the, I mean the, this technology works very well and, and step by, like consuming all my time. Now I'm full-time in the, in the business of, of, uh, fight the pollution. [00:14:42] Mizter Rad: You, you're a green warrior now? [00:14:44] Jaime Gutierrez: I am a green warrior, yeah. [00:14:46] Mizter Rad: Okay. So now, so now tell me something, because you also, because, so, so what I understand is that you started touching the topic of micro algaes because you wanted to help the human body. So that leads me to the next question. Can we use microalgaes to clean other ecosystems? So it's not only about rivers, oceans, swamps or land filled with trash, or... can we also clean maybe our own bodies? What, what else can we use the micro algaes for? [00:15:16] Jaime Gutierrez: Well, one of the, the most important capacities that micro algaes have is to capture carbonic dioxide from the air, co2. That as many people know, is a problem because we are having a disbalance in that, in the, the level of, of CO2 in the air, in the atmosphere is rising because, our activity, human activity. And then we find that if we connect that capacity of micro algae with something that is profitable, like for example, produce energy. Then we can help to reduce the amount of that gas in the atmosphere. And then we work in a system that can, could use the sewage, the wastewater for the cities, as input to grow micro algae, captures CO2 and then transfer all as biomass, which is micro algae in energy. Into energy. Recycling the gases. So... [00:16:17] Mizter Rad: in Interesting. Okay. But that, that is done all in the same plant in the same infrastructure? With the same infrastructure as... the same facility? [00:16:26] Jaime Gutierrez: Yeah. Yeah. [00:16:27] Mizter Rad: So let's go back to the facility. Let's go back to the facility cuz I, I think when you were saying that you take five to 10, 12 liters of, of the, of the sample of the, of the swamp, of the water, contaminated water. Then you take it back to the lab, you do some bio augmentation with water, sorry, with light. So that more, algae grows and then you take not the 50 kinds of algae that you found, but maybe 10 or 12 half of it. [00:16:55] Jaime Gutierrez: Yes. [00:16:55] Mizter Rad: Um, and then you put it back into the water swamp. [00:16:59] Jaime Gutierrez: No, not exactly. Not exactly. [00:17:01] Mizter Rad: Not exactly? Okay, cool. Then tell me what happens. [00:17:03] Jaime Gutierrez: We get like 50 liters of the 12 of the, just 12 micro algaes, and we come back to the territory, to the, to the place, to San Benito Abad, to Santiago Apostol, and then we stall a photo, a photo reactors to grow this just 12 species because the amount of micro algae that you need to, to reduce the pollution in a large body water like this one is, is enormous. So we create the infrastructure in the in the zone, and then we culture the micro algae intensively. So at the moment in when we was running the parade, we was producing more than 12,000 gallons of that selected culture of micro algae daily. [00:17:53] Mizter Rad: 12,000 gallons. And that's for how, how big is the water body that you can clean with 12,000 gallons of micro algae? [00:18:03] Jaime Gutierrez: Well, that case was the, Arroyo Grande de Corozal, that's the name of the, of the stream. And how it is, like, uh, how I can express that is, is it's a stream that carries the sewage of, uh, a city of 300,000 persons and four more towns. So imagine that it's, it's kind of small, but it's also large . See.. [00:18:32] Mizter Rad: Okay. And you know how many people live around that area, more or less? [00:18:35] Jaime Gutierrez: Yeah. It's just uh, 1.2 million. [00:18:39] Mizter Rad: Okay. That's, that's quite a lot of people. [00:18:42] Jaime Gutierrez: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That, that was, that was large. That was, I mean, like, uh, at that moment, I think that was the, the largest micro algae culture facility in the, in, in the, in Colombia for sure. And maybe in South America. Because like I said, and after we increase to 14,000 gallons daily, and that was the dose for produce and effect in, in that swamp. [00:19:05] Mizter Rad: So then you go and swamp it all in all the, all these gallons, every day in the... [00:19:10] Jaime Gutierrez: every day, [00:19:11] Mizter Rad: every day. So it's a big, it's a big operational process. [00:19:15] Jaime Gutierrez: It's a big operational process. It was very challenging because was very far away from the grid. We have not electricity. We have not water, like water supply. So we have to do everything in the same plant. And the roads was, uh, very bad. And there was a lot of challenge. [00:19:32] Mizter Rad: I mean, people, people that haven't been in, in, in Colombia. Especially this part of Colombia need to understand that this is a very, unfortunately poor, in most of the cases area. Where not having clean water is just the normal. And not having maybe electricity is also the normal. And where you unfortunately have trash everywhere and people don't have the resources to even educate themselves or understand why that's not good. So what else? So I wanna go to the community aspect as well, cuz I think that's very important. But before jumping there, I wanna close this rabbit hole that we went into with the, with trying to understand again. So you go every day and you throw into the water this 12, 14 gallons of micro algae. How long do you, does it take for you to see results? [00:20:26] Jaime Gutierrez: Six months. [00:20:27] Mizter Rad: Six months... [00:20:28] Jaime Gutierrez: ...and, and we throw the gallons. The 40,000 gallons. We throw it in the, in the, in the stream, not in the, in the swamp. [00:20:35] Mizter Rad: Okay. In the stream. [00:20:36] Jaime Gutierrez: Because one of the principles of this process that we use the, like the origin of the pollution, like the same tool for deliver the solution, you know. So we don't go to the swamp that was already polluted. We go to the stream that was causing the pollution, and we put the micro algae over the, the stream like five kilometers before the streams reach the, the swamp and... [00:21:00] Mizter Rad: and it end up in the swamp? The water ends up of course in the swamp and then the swamp also gets cleaned, basically. [00:21:07] Jaime Gutierrez: Yes, yes, yes. And that, that's very important for the successful of the process. That you calculate that. And that depends of the amount of water and the velocity of the water in the stream or river. That's the thing that you have to calculate at the beginning of the process. And like you say before. It's a very, it's a poor zone. However, the San Metova population is very, is, is kind of nice, have a beautiful church. And they have electricity. They do have electricity, and they do have water. But the thing is the place where we have to install the facility to produce the micro algae was not in the town, was far away. Because we have to go to the stream. And then that's was the, that's was, uh, why the process was so challenging. [00:21:53] Mizter Rad: Thank you for clarifying that San Benito is a beautiful town. I'm sure everyone that is listening to this would like to at least look at photos on Google. [00:22:03] Jaime Gutierrez: Yes. [00:22:03] Mizter Rad: So go ahead and Google it. [00:22:05] Jaime Gutierrez: Yes, yes. And for the people that, uh, is, is, is a believer, is like Christian believer, Catholic. They have a very important church there. With a very very important I mean they, they made the like two, twice of the year an event, with a lot of people goes to that town. For, for... [00:22:23] Mizter Rad: okay. No, it's a, it's definitely a beautiful area that it's undervalued in my opinion. It's not very exploited in terms tourism... [00:22:30] Jaime Gutierrez: no, no. Have, have a very enormous potential for e eco tourists, for example, for people that [00:22:36] Mizter Rad: Exactly. [00:22:37] Jaime Gutierrez: To watch birds and natural na... it's amazing the potential that that zone have. [00:22:43] Mizter Rad: Tell me something when you take the algae to the lab, the micro algae to the lab, do you, do they become stronger when ...when they go through your process of... [00:22:53] Jaime Gutierrez: Yeah. But it's because, I mean, micro algae and microorganism in general, they are very, I mean, they have a very broad set of capabilities. And then we discover that we, if we change the stimulation of the light, we can make them like increase their metabolic rate. It's like when you go over the, the running belt, you know? Mm-hmm. It hurts [00:23:19] Mizter Rad: when you're on steroids, basically... [00:23:21] Jaime Gutierrez: you consume calories faster. So without touch the DNA, without make any genetic intervention, you can get micro algaes that eat faster, basically. In this case, eat the pollutant faster. [00:23:36] Mizter Rad: Mm. So they're literally eating the pollutants. [00:23:40] Jaime Gutierrez: Yeah. The pollutants are their, their favorite burger. [00:23:44] Mizter Rad: But what if the , what if the, what if the burger is bigger? I imagine this is for liquid pollutants, but what if it's a big object, or how does that work? [00:23:53] Jaime Gutierrez: No, that's not work. We can fight garbage. No, we can't do anything with that. Okay. But unfortunately, this easier, I mean, there is a lot of solution for remove, uh, visible garbage from the water bodies. The probleming is the invisible pollution. That's the most expensive and, and difficult to remove before our process. [00:24:15] Mizter Rad: How, how about microplastics? I know that's a big problem in the fishing industry. [00:24:20] Jaime Gutierrez: Yeah. Microplastic is my, is my Moby-Dick. I mean, it's, it's a, yeah, it's my new Mobic. Uh, um, they cool. Yeah. They take microplastic for sure. But in that case, you don't have a, a process of, uh, I mean, I'm talking about we, what we know currently. Probably that will have an advance in the next year, but right now we know that microplastic are not biodegraded by micro algae. What means that it is not transformed. They can, some species take the microplastic and get inside the cells, but they stay there. And then that's a problem actually. Because the Zooplankton eats that micro algae and the microplastics up there, and then the fishes eat that Zooplankton and the microplastic are there. You know? That, that's a big problem actually. For example, for the whales and for the big mammals in the ocean that they eat almost exclusively plankton and they are accumulating because they long life that they have, they are accumulating at big amount of plastics, microplastic inside their body, their bodies. So, so this is a problem that is still to, to be achieved. I mean, like, I don't know how to solve right now. Yeah. But I'm working on that. [00:25:40] Mizter Rad: Okay. Okay. Let's hope you can find a solution. You have to give me a call when you do [00:25:45] Jaime Gutierrez: It will be great. [00:25:45] Mizter Rad: Tell me something. I mean, microplastics, everyone hears about microplastics all the time, but how, what is that actually? Is it like micro, the micro pieces of, of a plastic bag... [00:25:57] Jaime Gutierrez: yes. [00:25:57] Mizter Rad: That ends up in the water, for example? [00:25:59] Jaime Gutierrez: Yes, yes, yes. I mean, the plastic, the large plastic that you can see with your eyes, are like degraded and then break it in very small parts. And then that's the basic pro problem. They float. They goes direct to the oceans, and then they stayed there. And there is not in science or system in the biological system that ca could degrade that plastic. So that's why they're accumulating in the whales basically, and all the, the ecosystem. And it's a big problem. It's a really, really big problem that we don't know yet how to, to, to fight. [00:26:41] Mizter Rad: And when you look around the world, what other ways are we humans using to clean water, besides micro algae? [00:26:51] Jaime Gutierrez: Oh, many other ways. Actually, micro algae has been like undervalued in this field. Like just for the tertiary treatment, which means just for when you decontaminate water use, you use micro algae for the final step. But we used to clean water with bacterias. And that's the most spread treatment for is like called activated sludge, is the technical name of that plants. And in Europe, for example, you have, most of your plants are from activated sludge. It's bacterias that treat the pollutants in the water. Eat the pollutants also, but have a little problem. Is that the bacterias are, like I say, you like micro algae are like plants. No, but bacterias are like animals. So they eat and they poop. The poop is also toxic. So this, that, that sludge, is very, is very toxic. And that plants have to, to dispose that sludge in many, many ways. Mm-hmm. Now we are trying for, we, we, we say humanity. They have solution for use that as sludge for energy generation and all things. But this is very toxic and dangerous. But, and that are the most common treatment system for water, treatment. Also, there are a lot, the filtration technologies. Like reverse osmosis. They are very frequent in oil companies. And have the problem that consumes a lot of energy. So now we analyze this, the solutions in a holistic way. So it's not just that works, but it works without a lot of energy or works without generate another toxic pollutant in the process. We're trying to, and in that, in that, that's why micro algae are being like, seen today like a solution because have like more environmentally sustainable approach. [00:28:40] Mizter Rad: Talk to me about that, about the energy process that you were talking about. So you have the end result that you're gonna throw in the stream, the 12 or 14 gallons per day. But in throughout that process, there is this body of, this bunch of algae that can also be used to produce energy. [00:29:02] Jaime Gutierrez: But not in the same, in the same case. I mean, when we decontaminate that natural water body, all the biomass is injected from, in some way to the environment. And the Zooplankton eat it and the, that is like the, the, all, all the system, natural system, consume that biomass. In the production energy is the case, and we use sell industrial facility, that we call bio refinery, at the end of the pipe of sewage of a city. So it's a facility that replaces a wastewater treatment plants and use the sewage, the water with poop of the cities to grow micro algae. Capture, uh, carbon dioxide in the process. And then transform the biomass produce into energy. And then that our proposal is to use the enormous amount of sewage that we produce every day around the world, to culture micro algae, capture carbon dioxide, and produce energy. And that's, the good part of this is because we are so much humans in the world, we produce so much poop. So the process if applied massively, could help us to reduce the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere... [00:30:29] Mizter Rad: Take me through this process. Sorry to interrupt. Take me through this process again. We have the traditional treating plants. That treat the sewage, whatever comes through your toilet, ends up in a water body somewhere in the city. Yes. What happens normally? . [00:30:47] Jaime Gutierrez: What happens normally is that the, well, in the best cases and just for the 3% of the water of the big cities. The major cities that water goes to waste water treatment plant that usually use bacterias to consume and retire the organic load. That is the poop of the water. And then the bacteria have to be, the sludge, that is the bacteria's body have to be disposed in some way. You can burn it, you can put it in the in landfills. But the point is, the water is better. It means they contaminated. And then we put the water in the river. Back in the rivers. Yeah. You know. The, the problem with that, that, like I say before, it consumes a large amount of money represented in work and energy, and then just the biggest cities, and the more developed cities in the world can pay that. So the 70% of the water that are produced in a smaller cities and towns are just not treated. Goes directly to the rivers, the poop goes to the river. So the problem here was technological. Yes. But was also, uh, financial problem. But you say like, why they don't treat it because it is not profitable. Can, you can't pay 'em because that, that small towns can produce enough money to pay that process. So the, the companies that offer and develop that technologies can go there and install a facility and run the facility because they, they go, they get broke. So our idea was, okay, let's create this technology in a way that you can, uh, install a small bio refineries. And that bio refineries doesn't survive or doesn't cleaning the water or charging for cleaning the water. They survive charging for the energy that they produce. And because of the energy can be produced everywhere, and you only have to tend cable and you can inject the energy to the system of the country. That facility could successfully clean the water, produce the energy, capture the carbon dioxide, but survive financially. [00:33:01] Mizter Rad: So the water, so the water is cleaned by the micro algae. Yeah, that's clear. Then the energy comes from where? [00:33:09] Jaime Gutierrez: The energy come from transform the biomass that are the micro algae bodies. Yeah. In seeing gas and that seeing gas into energy. [00:33:18] Mizter Rad: What kind of gas is that? What what, what kind of gas is that? [00:33:22] Jaime Gutierrez: The thin gas is a special, is a different type of, uh, of, um, like natural gas. It's like a, a broads a different type of, of, uh, gas that you can burn. Okay. But in this case, uh, you burn it and because you have the micro algae there, you can take the gases, the co2 and all the gases and put inside the micro algae reactor to avoid that, that gas go to the atmosphere again. Mm-hmm. so the process gets clean. Hmm. Okay. And you, you create energy like with when you, uh, to run a, uh, uh, a jet turbine. [00:34:03] Mizter Rad: So it moves, it goes from chemical energy to To electric energy? [00:34:08] Jaime Gutierrez: To electric energy. Yeah. [00:34:10] Mizter Rad: Okay. And, but, so the two facilities are not the same, basically? The facility that cleans the water that ends up in the swamp is not the same of the facility that produces basically the biorefinery, the refinery, [00:34:27] Jaime Gutierrez: bio refinery is more complex. The, all the facilities just for create enough micro algae to clean a, a swamp, for example. Or a river. [00:34:35] Mizter Rad: Yeah. Yeah. [00:34:35] Jaime Gutierrez: You, you use just one of the reactors of the biorefinery. Just one. Yeah. Okay. The biorefinery have the four reactors. [00:34:44] Mizter Rad: Okay... [00:34:45] Jaime Gutierrez: that you have to connect to [00:34:46] Mizter Rad: And in, in this town in the north of Colombia, do you have both kind of facilities or [00:34:51] Jaime Gutierrez: No. [00:34:52] Mizter Rad: Are you doing both processes? No. Where are you working with with the bio refineries? [00:34:56] Jaime Gutierrez: The biorefinery, just in the pilot scale development state because are expensive . [00:35:02] Mizter Rad: Okay. [00:35:02] Jaime Gutierrez: And then we are, we are actually currently we're working in find enough funding for create one for a city in North Colombia, basically. [00:35:13] Mizter Rad: How much funding do you need? [00:35:14] Jaime Gutierrez: What? [00:35:14] Mizter Rad: How much funding do you calculate that you need for this? [00:35:18] Jaime Gutierrez: For example, for the facility that we are, like, projecting now is a facility that is capable, will be capable to treat like 2 million people sewage. And you need an investment of 70, 70 million. [00:35:32] Mizter Rad: 70 million dollars. [00:35:33] Jaime Gutierrez: USD. But for half a, like a comparison, if you can solve, you can treat the same amount of water with the regular technology, you will have, you will need a 250 million investment. [00:35:47] Mizter Rad: Okay. Yeah. So it's like, [00:35:49] Jaime Gutierrez: it's better , we think it better [00:35:51] Mizter Rad: there three, three times cheaper. Yeah. [00:35:52] Jaime Gutierrez: Yeah. It's three times cheaper. Just the, just the initial investment. But then when... [00:35:58] Mizter Rad: but is this, is, is there someone else doing it somewhere else? [00:36:02] Jaime Gutierrez: There are people doing similar things in Europe, for example. I think in the north of Europe, I don't remember exactly the city or the place, but they, for example they clean the water for micro algae and then they produce gas, and then they have a fleet of cars that use that gas for fuel, like fuel. [00:36:21] Mizter Rad: Interesting. [00:36:21] Jaime Gutierrez: They, they don't produce energy in that city. And it's a real facility in the North Europe. I have, I think it's Norway. I, I don't remember in the moment, sorry. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . But I was very, very viral when they turn on that. And there's another city, the north of Europe, in which they turn down a coal energy generation facility because they install another, uh, general, uh, energy facility with micro algae. [00:36:51] Mizter Rad: Does it depend on which algae, like the energy generated is better with certain type of algae than other, or it doesn't matter? [00:36:58] Jaime Gutierrez: Yes. Yes, definitely. It's always, uh, it's always an important point to select the species that you use in your process for the swamp discontamination. Or for the energy production facility using sewage. You always will have to make a selection process. That's a little expertise need in that. [00:37:19] Mizter Rad: And, and so can you, as a business, can you export or sell this micro algae to maybe people that don't have access or like co governments, towns that don't have access or the know how. [00:37:32] Jaime Gutierrez: Can export. You can export equipments. The patented reactors. But the, the correct way to do it is to go to the town and, and find the micro algae there. [00:37:43] Mizter Rad: Right. Like you said in the beginning, like it's important to keep the ecosystem as natural as possible. [00:37:49] Jaime Gutierrez: Yes. Actually, all the designing process of the reactors was around this. We will not make equipment that are like dependent of some specific species. We make equipment that could give the, any species of micro algae the best environment possible to achieve the goal. The equipment have to run properly. Here or in Germany or in US or in Canada with local micro algae. [00:38:18] Mizter Rad: Mm-hmm. . So the, the reactors that you built or that you own would work with any kind of algae, basically. [00:38:24] Jaime Gutierrez: Any kind of algae basically. That was, that was all the, the, the, the goal of the, of the designing process. [00:38:30] Mizter Rad: Talk to me about the algae market because I think like in Germany, in Europe, there is a lot of hype around eating algae. It's a super food. I guess it's not a micro algae per se, but. How do you see... it is a micro as well? Talk to me about this because... [00:38:47] Jaime Gutierrez: there is a lot of micro that they, they are like right now being selling like a super food and the reason is because the micro algae produce some oils that are very good for human brain specifically, but for other things also. And do you remember that the last decade was, the consumption of salmon and other of these orange fishes was very promoted. Because of the PUFAs. It's like the Polyunsaturated fatty acids content. [00:39:18] Mizter Rad: Yes. [00:39:19] Jaime Gutierrez: Okay. Well happens that, that fishes have that molecules because they eat micro algae. [00:39:26] Mizter Rad: Okay. So, so you, if you eat micro algae, you're actually eating the source of it. [00:39:31] Jaime Gutierrez: Yeah. Yeah. That, that's the idea. And then, and there is a lot of super food that are being like promoted now and then, then you you eat it in, in, in, in a capsules. In a little capsules. So you improved your dietary income... [00:39:46] Mizter Rad: like a supplement... [00:39:47] Jaime Gutierrez: healthy. Yeah, it's a supplement. It's a supplement for your brain. Also for, because the brain seems to use a lot of these component to works well. So yeah, micro algae are like exploding . Everyone wanna do micro algae now because half applic that kind of application. Even for the agriculture, for example, now that we have this probleming of dependency of chemical generated crop stimulants, now we are seeing... [00:40:15] Mizter Rad: yeah, like fertilizers? [00:40:17] Jaime Gutierrez: Fertilizers, yeah. So now you can use also micro algae for that. And it's very good for the crops. Specific crops works better, but with some strains of micro algae. But in general, the biomass is good for use like fertilizer, bio fertilizer instead, chemical generator fertilizer. So the carbon the cost of this fertilizer are much better and the best spot if you can produce the fertilizer in situ. For example, for Colombia, we depend like a hundred percent of imported chemical fertilizers, and that's very expensive, and it's not good for environment if you have to move the fertilizer from Ukraine to Colombia to produce the potatoes here in Colombia is better to produce, for example, the micro algae biomass here in Colombia, and use it here in Colombia. It's much better for the environment. You know? [00:41:10] Mizter Rad: How difficult is to produce that fertilizer out, out of the algae, for example? [00:41:15] Jaime Gutierrez: I find very easy to produce. But the truth is that... the trick is are in the volume. It's not easy to sustain, apparently. It's not easy to sustain that level of 14,000 gallons day of stable culture in open reactors is not so easy for many people. Apparently the reactor that we design make it easier because for us it's like, I mean, we, we'll never have a problem of reduction. Hmm. But the truth is yeah, sometimes it's difficult. And then because of that struggle, because the small, I mean the, the, the, the, the chemical fertilizers are very stable. They are industrial facilities. They have everything standardized and then they can provide the same amount, a huge amount of product in a very stable rate. And that doesn't happen with the bio fertilizer producers. We are trying to change that currently. [00:42:13] Mizter Rad: Do you see your infrastructure, your company, growing into different markets, like we talked about algae being helpful in so many different ways. Do you see this, your company also growing into different sectors? [00:42:30] Jaime Gutierrez: Yes. We would like to think like that because we think that we can offer a very, very feasible and also profitable that is important to the, the, the thing be sustainable in time for a circular economy and in many, in many, many aspects. And this is a need that we have, like society like species. Humanity needs to be more circular because it's not sustainable in the way that we have been running or live our lives and or production system until now. It's not sustainable. [00:43:03] Mizter Rad: It doesn't like, just from a very specific and simple example that you just mentioned. It's not sustainable to buy fertilizers from Ukraine in a country that has all the natural resources to produce bio fertilizers like Colombia. Like, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. It happens probably because there's a lot of financial reasons and you know, Globalization and [00:43:31] Jaime Gutierrez: And it's not the capacity, the technical capacity to produce the bio fertilizer. [00:43:35] Mizter Rad: There is no capacity. Yeah. [00:43:36] Jaime Gutierrez: No, there is not. And there was not possible, for example, do you know how to do it? I mean, this technology to decontaminate the swamps was not a reality 10 years ago. Now is happening daily and not just here also in India for example. And we are spreading the thing to the rest of Latin America and North America. But 10 years ago that was impossible. You don't know how to do it. And for example, trying to the contaminate the swamps, then we learn how to produce in a stable way, a larger, larger amount of of micro algae biomass. So now we can apply that to the bio fertilizer field. And this is a learning process that is... [00:44:18] Mizter Rad: right. [00:44:19] Jaime Gutierrez: Daily happening... [00:44:21] Mizter Rad: right. How big is your team, by the way? , [00:44:23] Jaime Gutierrez: my team is very small. And they remind me that every day. We're less than, we're less than than 12 person in the, in the company. Yeah. And we work with with partners in the places where we go. And we are trying to improve that because this really need to be more bigger because they, we have a lot demand of services in many, many places in Colombia and out of here too. [00:44:50] Mizter Rad: How important is to connect with the local, local community? [00:44:55] Jaime Gutierrez: It's essential. It is essential. Mm-hmm. You you can't do a project like that without a proper connection with the community. And, and that was a debate. I have to recognize that when we was looking for the funds for the Santiago Apostol decontamination process, we have a delay of more than a year. Because there was some of the, of the, of the jury, of the people that decide to give us or not the money. That think that because was a bio technological process, there was, they was not agree that we, I was putting money in the communication with the community process. [00:45:37] Mizter Rad: Mm-hmm. [00:45:37] Jaime Gutierrez: they say like, that's, that's out of the field. They say but I can't go there and make an experiment and make technology in their stream and their swamp without talk with them. I have to, I have to include them more than talk. I have to include them in the process. It is their swamp. It's not mine. I'm outsider for them. And honestly that was very challenging because my fellow scientist, because what was my science was my colleagues, scientists, colleagues. That think that, no, no, no this money is for biotechnology. Not for community intervention. I say like, yes, but I am intervening and then going to the community. I can't ignore that. And honestly, that's a essential thing. You have to talk with the people. We have to understand how the people understand the problem. We have to share with them. And we have to listen them. Because, not because you have a PhD and you're the, the most, uh, smart pants in your field. [00:46:36] Mizter Rad: You're, you're the green warrior. [00:46:38] Jaime Gutierrez: Yeah, I am the green warrior and all that shit. But I have, I, I, I don't know nothing about the place. Their lives. How they interact with the water. It's their water. So it is, you have to have like you be humble and sit with them and learn with them about what they know about the body water. And that's also a beautiful process I have to recognize. I learned a lot. [00:47:02] Mizter Rad: I can imagine. I can imagine... [00:47:04] Jaime Gutierrez: about people. Yeah. Yeah. [00:47:06] Mizter Rad: The people, the people that have been, positively affected by, by your work, what, what is their experience so far? What do you hear from them? [00:47:16] Jaime Gutierrez: Well, it is, is very var.. I mean, there is a lot of reactions. Many people, most of them are very grateful and they enjoy and they learn. The kids mostly because we got, we work with the schools in the zone and they learn everything about microalgae and they know now everything about phytoremediation and they use the jargon and they use what was very beautiful process. Also the older people. But there is also other social actors that always expect more about the project. They say okay, the swamp is now clean. But what about me? I have no work. So like, oh, I have no job . I say like, oh, okay. But, uh, I, I don't know how to solve that with micro algae you know? [00:48:02] Mizter Rad: Right... [00:48:02] Jaime Gutierrez: it's a social problem. And then we try to transfer knowledge. I don't like that term, but what we do is to try to teach them to feed fish with micro algae to, to try today like star fisheries. Like, uh, to try to, they make a business with the micro algae and then we, we teach them how, how to grow the micro algae in a very simple process. With the simple medias. With tanks that you can find in, in the, in, in the, in the shop. And then feed the, the, the fishes in tanks also with, with the micro algaes to try to them, to give them like a tool to make their, the micro algae also a tool for their lives. But this... [00:48:48] Mizter Rad: You're creating like a entrepreneurship ecosystem within... [00:48:51] Jaime Gutierrez: yeah. Something like that. But that doesn't work very well. I mean, because, uh, yeah, I mean, I mean, you don't have the answer for everything. [00:49:01] Mizter Rad: No, of course. I understand. It is a process . You know, when, when people here in Europe ask me about Colombia, I have to say there's a lot of positive things I can tell about people in Latin America. One thing that catches my attention a lot of times though, is this difference between Europe and Latinos. One of the main difference I would say is that here, especially in the north of Europe, people like and are already somehow trained in their mind to plan and strategize for longer than, six months, one year, six years, 10 years in the future. [00:49:39] Jaime Gutierrez: Yeah. [00:49:40] Mizter Rad: And people in Latin America, not everyone, but a lot of us are more living on a day-to-day basis. [00:49:47] Jaime Gutierrez: Yes, that's true. [00:49:47] Mizter Rad: And that has a lot of positive things, but also has a lot of negative things. One of the negative things... [00:49:52] Jaime Gutierrez: agree [00:49:53] Mizter Rad: may be for example, starting a company or a own project, it takes time. You have to do it day by day, step by step. You're not gonna see the answer from one day to the other. You're not gonna solve a some, an economic problem from one day to the other. So I think what you're doing is fantastic building this... [00:50:13] Jaime Gutierrez: thank you... [00:50:14] Mizter Rad: entrepreneurship ecosystem on top of what you're doing with the algaes and helping the environment and of course the people around the environment that you are affecting. So with that, I really appreciate you being here, Jaime. It was a pleasure to have you on. I hope next time we talk, we can talk more about micro algaes, and hopefully then we have more info on how we can solve the problem of microplastics in the water. Cause I think that's the big, that's a big issue, [00:50:45] Jaime Gutierrez: Oh, that will be great. That will be great. No, thank you you to, to invite me to this space. I, I have like, like no experience with with this kind of interaction online, but it is very interesting and I'm very grateful to, to, for your invitation and your space to, to talk and tell about my process and my some winnings but also some, some struggle [00:51:09] Mizter Rad: Absolutely. And thank you so much for sharing. You are definitely a green warrior. Thank, say hello to your team. And until next time. Okay. One love. Thank you so much. [00:51:20] Jaime Gutierrez: Okay. Bye-bye. [00:51:21] Mizter Rad: Bye-bye. Chao.